Cyber Security and Health Panel

September 16, 2019 posted by


thank you very much Liam thank you all for coming
and thank to the folks who are tuning in we’re really excited between the people
you know viewing by livestream we have over 90 people in attendance so tells
you I’m just and from a very diverse group so Liam introduced me but I want
to first start off by thanking the Institute for CyberScience Penn State’s Dickinson Law and Penn State State law
yes Penn State has two independent law schools more about that later and so and
I also want to say thank the College of Engineering and these amazing panelists who
are here today we’re gonna go over a lot of stuff but I just want to briefly
introduce the panelists and tell you what we’re gonna try to do today and
then I’ll have them give a few words about themselves and then we’re gonna
kind of have this as a conversation this is not a typical academic panel where
they’re just gonna each speak for a few minutes we really kind of somehow lured
Reuben into this very kindly he agreed to talk to us about some exciting
conceptual work he’s doing but really the intersection will see you with
health privacy data data security systems security and the law so this
while we’re gonna talk about Reuben stuff as a highlight the platform really is
this broader discussion and to point out all the interdisciplinary work that’s
going on here at Penn State and the opportunity so first to my right is
Reuben Kraft who is a assistant professor with our College of
Engineering he also has a really great background near and dear to my
heart because it was undergrad at the University of Maryland Baltimore County
campus UMBC and he got his PhD at Johns Hopkins since I live
and worked in Baltimore for a very long time and Reuben also hasn’t really had time they
greatly because besides parking possibly with ICS ruin Reuben was awarded the
Alumni outstanding award for teaching from Penn State Alumni to Reubens right
is Rachel herder Rachel have a PhD at a JD from the University of Minnesota
her PhD is in molecular biology and so rachel has worked for years with one of
the largest patent firms in the world social trainings to Penn State in her
position as the director of our intellectual property clinic incredible
resource and value and more importantly for all of you researchers and folks
developing apps out there the services of the intellectual property clinic are
free too and that’s not something here what you’re saying on the zoo sitting
next to Rachel you have ryan gilmore are really grateful to ICS because Ryan is
going to talk to us a lot about how ICS Institute for cyber science works to
keep our researchers data secure and kind of handles the compliance end a lot
of things about data Ryan is is a tail is technical director
for ICS correct yeah and so Ryan is near of course as many people come back to
Penn State the big family Ryan has his undergraduate degree in electrical
engineering right from Penn State and he also has a master’s degree in electrical
engineering and systems systems engineering from George Mason so and
then last but not least who were really honored to have here today is Tom even
though he’s so the Thomas char ball do not call them
Tom taken back to nuns you only have him as a small child so let’s just stick
with Tom so Tom Chara is the former managing partner of Morgan Lewis
credibly large firm Tom brings an excellence in corporate backgrounds
corporate transactions and he is the director of our entrepreneur assistance
clinic here at Penn State which is located in launchbox
both professor and professor Sean Burroughs practices are located in
launchbox and they are both professors at Penn State law so you really have
this combination of to law schools here Institute for cyber science in the
College of Engineering so and special thanks to Liam Jackson who stuff here
and embarrass himself but Liam said I put this together and make no mistake
Liam and his team of folks really did all the work to make this happen today
and Jenny Evans really give us a ton of support her position in this director of
ICS so I’m just before I get started I’m just going to ask everybody each
panelist to say a couple words and everyone I’ll start with you sure yeah
well first thanks and Liam and ICS and all the panel members for inviting me to
be part of this it’s really exciting I was in learning stuff as we’ve been
planning for it and I’m sure learn a lot today
to my background I graduated from Hopkins I went to work at the Army
Research Lab for four years in Aberdeen Maryland everybody proving ground
maryland and there i got exposed to sort of computational biomechanics and brain
mechanics and i’ll talk a little bit about that more in a second and then I
worked at the Applied Physics lab at Johns Hopkins for a year and then I came
here in 2013 as an ICS co hire and I use ICS resources you know daily the course
that I got the Teaching Award I actually use I have a hundred students from
residents and also world campus on yes learning high-performance computing
we use that system every day so it’s a I really thank them also for those
resources and I’ve been here since 2013 hi my name’s Rachel I was working at a
big law firm before working on patents and patent prosecution still helping
early-stage startup clients get and build their patent portfolio now I
direct the in on show property link which is an mentioned we provide free
legal services to any small Pennsylvania company or individual so I’ve
intellectual property generally refers to like patents copyrights trademarks
and trade secrets and we can help you so I hope to see some of you come visit me
no question is too big or too small if we aren’t in a position to be able to
help you I can definitely help point you in the right direction so I really look
forward to seeing some of your the future I’m Ryan Gilmore I support the
Institute for cyber science I’ve been supporting ICS for about three years now
I just stepped into the technical director role and I guess it was August
prior to that I spent about nine years with the federal contractor working for
systems engineering and a little bit in compliance and security as well there my
focus here has been primarily in the security and compliance and also with
the systems engineering approaches of ICS in particular so we’re going to use
a lot of acronyms so I’ll just get it out of the way right off the bat here’s
ICS Institute for cyber science the system that we support is the is
referred to as a CRI CSAC I the advanced cyber infrastructure so from here on
don’t refer to it as ICS a CI that’s the instrument that I support
that you know we are the flagship HPC for the university and those are the non
people start to interrupt UHPC is high-powered computing systems so many
of you I’m sure know that I swear the I think you can speak complete sentences
of acronyms anymore so you know if if anybody has any questions please stop me
if I use an acronym you’re not aware of sobbing it out I’ll try to you know
spell it out so we have 20,000 compute lords roughly and we have about 20
petabytes of storage both active and archive storage that we provide for our
research one thing I want to make very clear right off the bat is I do not
perform the research right we have researchers here we like to think of
ourselves as enabling that research to advance to foster in an
interdisciplinary research endeavor at the University and that’s where I see
SacI fits in I’m Tom Sharma and I have been back here at Penn State for my
third year I grew up not far from here over in Cambria County which is in Evans
burger which is that place that has the big courthouse that you see on the hill
when you drive to Pittsburgh on round 22 and so I went to law school and then
went to Philadelphia where I was for decades with a huge law firm they’re
doing a variety of business work and then I had the idea to to start teaching
and proposed the law school here that we started all the leadership program here
and is one of the few things that I’m exactly right in my life at that it was
just around the time when president Barron started this whole invent Penn
State thing and so I made the pitch to the then Dean and associate dean of the
law school and they were interested but it was before Eric Barron did his thing
and then two weeks later he told every College in the university they had to
really get involved in entrepreneurship and I got a quick call
and said you want to do this I was like done so here I am
and so my office as with Rachel is down at the lodge box downtown not at the law
school and we spend a lot of time we have all sorts of clients coming from we
started off by presenting clients from right around the area here the
university community broadly defined and it sort of went out to adjoining
counties but now just after a few years and particularly after the addition of
Rachel’s capability we now represent any client based in Pennsylvania so there we
have clients that are professor teams at Bucknell and Lehigh and students and
locust college and up and Kutztown and all over the place and it’s really been
great I always say that we’re like the modern-day land-grant outreach part you
know it’s like used to be you had guys and trucks driving around handing out
different types of corn seed to try and I still remember this a kid her terms of
driving through town and that’s like us we are you know about telling people all
over the state how they can develop businesses thank you thanks so just one
of the way we’re gonna do this a few housekeeping rules is we’re gonna have
plenty of time for laughter you know we’ve got a good
window of time to his panel and we’re going to sort of hear the story of
Rubens work and you know we had a joke going beforehand about everyone’s like
what happens when like an engineer goes in with a 3d like privacy and data layer
so you come out with handcuffs we’re not going to let that happen today and
Thomas makes a choice and this is why this is so important and what Reubens
doing is so it is really it’s great foresight in the work he’s doing because
one societal benefit of the work used and cannot be it just can’t be
emphasized enough how important what he’s doing is but at the same time it
really proposes very novel questions about the data storage or what’s being
done compliance from that standpoint and how does a researcher take take this
kind of work and get it to the market really how do how do we get it out of
the research how to be protecting intellectual property of the researcher
how do we make sure that the researcher is using trusted data and the research
he or she is doing protecting that property and then the commercialization
process so I’m really again these worked endlessly to do that but let’s think
about this again is one of the primary goals here is for us all to recognize
the benefits that come from interdisciplinary collaboration even
though I do be practicing electronic surveillance and privacy law for decades
now just in the process of preparing for this panel I’ve learned so much from
each of these individuals so I hope today that that’s our goal so Reuben if
you’re ready let’s get started with your sure your work yeah
so the sort of the use case that we’re talking about here is brain simulations
and and brain injury and that’s really the one of the focal points
my research portfolio so if you don’t know concussions are one of the most
significant health and wellness issues impacting young people who play sports
and serve in the military today a lot of my research focuses on trying to
understand that and and you’ll see actually model that process so that we
can develop other technologies to protect or improve the welfare of folks
and I thought you know I thought it was really useful to actually mention this
so I thought that I dedicate my panel discussion today to Dylan Thomas and his
family so Dylan was a football player who actually died on September 30th 2018
and you can see here the the coroner released the statement that his death
was ruled an accident and he had cardiac arrest
as a result of traumatic brain injuries due to a closed head injury so I think
this this is a very real problem and it’s actually it’s a very uh so it’s a
hard little situation we’re in because we have instances like this
and that are really sad and there are lots of other ones like this at the same
time we have this love of sport that we love to do and and so it’s very tricky
navigating this so that’s that’s who that’s right oh yeah absolutely I have
some numbers on that so to give you a little bit more in depth numbers each
year the US and estimated 2.5 million people grades 9 through 12 experience
concussion okay reference represents
percent of all high school students and this doesn’t allow include all the
millions of younger kids who suffer concussions to attend high school
athletes and play contact sports including soccer and lacrosse will
suffer concussion so this is not a football problem okay I I was a very big
athlete I suffered concussions and I didn’t play a football girls soccer sees
the second most concussions of all high school sports and as well as girls
basketball she’s a third most and we’re starting to see some very interesting
differences between men and women in the way they experience a concussion and
athletes who have had a concussion maybe four to six times more likely to
experience a second concussion so it’s essentially the the tissue or something
about that system is more vulnerable after you have one and that’s an issue
that we have to understand so this is also not just a civilian problem it’s a
military problem that’s really what got me into this first part so it affects
soldiers in both peace and war and you can see that this chart here is a number
released by the DoD they track these in 2000 and over 380,000 soldiers have
experienced a traumatic brain injury and this large slice of the pie here over 82
percent is what we call mild and so a mild traumatic brain injury is
synonymous with a concussion many times people use that term interchangeably so
we have a large number of mild traumatic brain injuries and it’s so much that
every conflict if you look back at the history books they have tend to have
signature injuries and concussions or mild traumatic brain injury has been
classified as the signature injury for Iraq and Afghanistan the last conflicts
we’ve been in and of course this has big implications on not only or
now there’s a very large research focus on what we call you know basically
occupational exposure so this is in the training field either for like the SWAT
team in the civilian side who are military folks these are folks that you
know you work with explosives and practice this on a daily basis they’re
exposed to low-level blast overpressure so it’s a pressure that impacts your
head and the worry is that well there is what’s the effects long term this is a
big problem for the military because if they’re a long-term nor a regenerative
effects that are associated with this operational loading we’re talking about
VA benefits and all of those things have followed so it’s a big monetary cost in
our society that we have to think about also it’s just not that window of time
where they experience negative cognitive symptoms okay so the other thing that
many people don’t realize is that there’s no gold standard for diagnosing
concussions so this is it’s very hard to do you cannot see this right now on a
like a MRI magnetic resonance image we hope that there are techniques that can
get us there but we’re not there yet if you talk to people diagnosing medical
physicians who diagnose concussions they are using different techniques to do
that you know some range from eye tracking for example with a popular one
there’s balanced as a reaction test there’s a lot of these neural cognitive
tests that they can do to assess and try to make that diagnosis but it is very
tricky to do and there’s no witness doesn’t if you take to do this one
little supposed to do this one so this leads us to the idea of sensing so one
of the ideas of well what if you know a threshold at which you get a concussion
what if you can sense that somehow and then just connect those dots so you got
you got in you had a impact in soccer that you experienced and it was this
level that means you have a concussion time to sit out or go through a
rehabilitation training phase or whatever might be the doctor might
prescribe so these are these are a couple companies that that I work with
there are ones that are focused on blast loading which is very unique from a
soccer impact in terms of explosion shockwave and then there are ones that
are focused on sports I have a couple of these examples two of the examples in
the middle so there’s one sensor from athlete intelligence and they really I
would say we’re one of the first companies to really pioneer or what we
call the mouthguard sensor so this is a sensor that you put the mouth guard so
it’s traditional people are used to wearing mouth guards and so they put a
dill in the mouth guard which is really a great thing in the sense that it’s the
best method to capture kinematics of the skull so the best we could do from
sensors and these are sensors are the same ones that are in your cell phones
their accelerometers gyroscopes things like this the best that we can do is
measure what the SKA does with these sensors and so the tighter tighter
coupling we have with a skull the better information we get we have seen
scientific studies that have shown you know there are cases where they put
inserts in the helmet there are headbands there are even like stick-on
patches that even that I’ve seen and the problem some of the issues they have to
work out is that that with a twin that when you have an impact your tissue or
the apparatus which are measuring moves separately than your skull so they’re
not that we’ll see like if the girl soccer ball gets hit on that thing the
headband that’s right it well and they’ve done high speed imagery to see
this and a lot of studies so the mouth guards are really excited I’m gonna pass
these around so this is the vector mouth guard and you can see all the sensors
sit outside the mouth okay and so that’s one of the first model and one of the
companies that we’re also working with I’m really excited about is a company
called pre-event biometrics and it comes out of the Cleveland Clinic researcher
the director of the head and neck Institute there and this is like a mouth
guard that you see if you it’s opaque so you can’t really see through it and you
can even see the hole in the top where you if you remember your sports you sort
of put it in the boiling water and form it to your mouth and to your teeth so
this is the same thing you put it in the hot water it turns out offend the second
example around that that’s actually embedded are all these sensors inside
and so there’s a lot of testing going on with this this mouth guard here so so
one thing I thought was cool though is as an athlete which would you prefer I
think about that I do you want this thing sticking out like yeah so that’s
that’s one of the technologies they have that athletes don’t really know that
it’s even there and that by the way that that sends data to the cloud yeah
athletes should know it’s there that’s just right yeah and the sense that it
feels different from a different health car it’s not like the the tab case where
other cases that you might have the headband for so what does that mean when
we talk about data and reliability of data and trusted data what is
difference in these types of sensors then you talk about address back because
I think that’s pretty fascinating yeah well I should say I’m not a sensor
guideline expert at that but there are problems as you know this work is not
new I mean this work element by mechanical sensors has it been going on
for at least 20 years and figuring out how to use it and you know when they
started to go and commercialize this there was there’s pushback and the
reason not every athlete is working right now because the medical community
hasn’t accepted it it’s not as far as I know none of these devices are FDA
approved and they have no challenges for example if you drop your sensor and it
sends a signal off that’s a false positive that then is held forever in
the cloud basically and so what do you do with that yeah of course yeah and so
what how do you hold the data how’s it secure at all those Ashan are definitely
around yeah so the reliability of the data has been definitely a challenge I’m
hoping that all the batteries and the sensors now internal to the body tightly
coupled will help solve that problem and we continue to work on I think the
center company continued works so if we have the the data what we’re thinking is
the center that I’d be really useful at best let me let me actually come back to
this a second let me say one other thing here so this is a little little movie
that shows how the brain moves separately than the sculpt so of course
this is not real this is a synthetic brain in and and skull and the core at
the top of the head is chopped off but it shows an example of these nonlinear
materials and how complex they are where’s needed to be told it was I don’t
know just make it sure again I’m trying to avoid the handcuffs here so you can
see it’s easy to see that the brain is is rehabs very very differently from
what we call mechanical response but very differently from what the skull is
doing and so it’s a real problem at best we said we could collect data on
the skull from a sensor we can unless we put sensors internal to the body we
can’t we can’t do that so the skull is the best thing we can get and so we said
well what if we could use data from wearable sensors at the skull trusted
biomechanical data to predict the brains response and that’s kind of where it
enters into the modeling phase and that’s really the entry point for that
and so the basic idea is that we have sensor data down there what we call the
dose so you think about this as a you know just similar to a prescription and
the amount that you take this is the the impact or last dose that the sensor can
accurately measure let’s assume that it’s there we know that the brain
responds differently from the skull and so what we have to do is we have a huge
question mark between what we call functional outcomes and that’s those are
the symptoms associated with a concussion you’re dizzy you can’t
balance you have headaches you can’t sleep so these are all the symptoms and
there are many different ones and they’re many they’re very complex for
individuals but we can’t create that connection yet it hasn’t been able to do
so the one thing is well if we need to know the brain response and we actually
use modeling to predict predict tissue stretch and tissue stretches a it’s a
biomechanical thing it’s it’s what we do as mechanical engineers and material
engineers is we we model these systems and we can validate these models and so
the jigglin green was the tissue stretch that’s right that’s a tissue stretch and
that this connection between the sensor data is reliable and the tissue stretch
is achievable through biomechanical simulation validation and all the work
that associated with it it doesn’t touch on what we call a court of of soft
issues on how your functional or your mind working it’s only mechanical
properties okay so that’s where we we want to do and the goal really then is
to use computer brain modeling to drastically improve the way neuro trauma
is detected and monitored over time so imagine if in the future we could use a
sensor data we could run a simulation of the brain and then we could tell the
physician or the medical doctor what happened inside almost like a virtual
MRI okay and that’s kind of the statement there let me show you a little
bit about what is this computer modeling if you’re not familiar with that let me
tell you a little bit about that so computer modeling is is a is and
specifically what I use is called the finite element method it’s around it
started back a long time around the nineteen hundred the mathematics started
to form and then you know we first applied it really in aircraft design and
how wings water I teach both undergraduate and graduate level classes
here and two engineering students and it’s really the go-to tool in
engineering you can see here we use it for you know connecting rods we use it
for crash simulations and we’re starting to use it now in biology it’s so
powerful for example back in the 1990’s the 777 Boeing airliner was entirely
designed in the computer okay so this is not a this is not a video game it’s
based on real physics that are accepted walls and it’s a trustful reliable
method so we’ve started to use this the most advanced what we call computational
medicine I would say is really what the virtual heart and this is a couple folks
have been leading this they’re really ahead of in terms of modeling and the
idea is if you’re having like valve replacement or something they
would go in and actually design a model of your system of your heart and see if
they’re what they’re going to implant our Trent plan is going to be effective
okay and so there’s that’s starting to be used in the clinic which is really
exciting and that really I think it really spawned off my Ridgemont my ideas
in brain modeling because we’re not and I’ve been doing brain mana for ten years
it’s been around for at least thirty years and it’s not in the clinic yet
it’s not being used by physicians and you know I wonder from my research
perspective in my day-to-day you know is this making an impact on people who I
does it should be or it could be and so a lot of you know this moving forward is
exploring can we do that and you might want to think about that for your own
research you know is it transitioning as fast as you’d like it to transition here
are some of the models you know we work on and now these are template models of
all the an Tomica regions they enter anatomy and we can develop these
computational models from that here are other examples I developed when I was at
the Army Research Lab you kind of see the internal response of the brain you
can kind of see it so that almost at virtual MRI machine that was run and and
here you can see the nonlinear response of the brain in real time during an
impact and so that kind of shows you the the power of the method and where could
go just one more thing on the modeling here is it works this is just a little
movie that shows the computational method here again we have you can see
that it’s a soldier a lot of my I mentioned a lot of my research is
focused going on military and we have a lot of the components of the skull that
the brain and this has all created in this digital space of finite elements
and you’ll see here that it’s just not a surface mesh it actually holds three
dimensional volume at which we solve partial differential equations over this
this model can run and about Femina probably about a day
about 24 hours online 16 processors and so ICS enables that capability through a
parallel computing so I think one thing to the ISS are seeing this as it really
is and the living card example that we even talked about is this is the
frontier of medicine because we think about it there’s a company in Europe
that’s working on body double right and the idea to create a virtual duplicate
and so in that living heart project what they do is using scans they can actually
take the patient and do a virtual model of their hearts and that the surgery can
be done on the virtual model to make sure that all unique attributes of that
person is part of our vascular system are being accommodated and are being
taken into account before the surgery takes place and then we think about what
we want isn’t it like think about how many how many you know even you and I
talked about this how many industries use computational modeling – as you
pointed out the bowling aircraft to build something before they actually
build it and they use modeling to do that or to see what is the consequence
that this is going to be how are we going to really measure this so I think
that’s what’s really phenomenal here is to see this happening with the grain
talk about the scary person yeah go ahead okay so so how could it
work with all these things we talked about so this is sort of a picture Aska
Matic of concepts at this point everything is a concept so let’s say we
we develop a computerized individual specific model of an athlete and their
brain and we’re able to predict brain defamation and monitor kill bit of
insults over time and so you might start down here as a youth player and you
might have these sensors collecting data and they upload that to the cloud and
then this use person might get odor as they
their career evolves and they go to teenager or college and then finally a
dog and all that data is still stored in the class and so what we’re proposing is
that possibly for every impact that occurs there could be an automatic
simulation that spawns off so you have an impact it takes out of the cloud
automatically we create a simulation of that particular impact for that
particular individual and then that data is post processed and sent back to the
player of the coach the physician in this case and we monitor this over time
this could be important for things like nor Norwich there
g-general generative disease where we we we can’t really test we have no way to
identify that exists during life so most of you know if you’ve heard of chronic
traumatic encephalopathy that’s still sort of being researched but that’s
possibly associated with impacts to the head repetitive impact over the head so
could we actually predict that in real time over life yeah youth teenager
college adult right and let me tell you so let me sort of how big is this
problem how could big of a data problem could it be so this is a this is data
collected from the athlete intelligence that’s the black centre I sent around
before this is collected over two seasons so the first activity you see is
2015 and then over here on this side is 2016 so there are two seasons of play
that occurred the data is so dense that if we took up that dashed line up there
and we zoom in here this is just for one day okay you can see over one practice
all the impacts that occur and so using this data for your estimate for Matheson
high school football there’s about five hundred impacts per player per season
okay you use the data out there there’s about 1 million high school football
players today so that translates to about and if we did a simulation on each
those impacts being 500 million simulations per season per season so I
would argue and this is only for football I would argue that this concept
of digital brain simulation could be the pinnacle of digital healthcare
computational personalized medicine yes we’re using it in the heart studies but
it’s not at the frequency at which this would occur we’re talking about multiple
simulations per day and so that’s pretty excited I mean I think about it from a
data data perspective I think about it from a data analytics perspective all
that data that would be there and it’s just it’s just really amazing to think
about how big how how much data we could actually have it this is from the lawyer
standpoint and this is talking about the cyber and data privacy pieces of it and
this is where we kind of thought I would jump in and talk about this for a second
so think back to we saw these examples of how the sensors are working in the
biometric data that’s being collected maybe so understand the critical
importance for accuracy of this data we see these sensor companies are
collecting this data and this this chart shows just how much data is being
collected on an individual right over time taken down to a day and now think
how important the accuracy of the data that’s being collected by the sensor is
because one of the long-term implications for that and short-term
right if someone’s reviewing the data a coach is reviewing the data and saying
hey you’ve got too many impacts you can’t go back in what if it’s from a
drop of this what if I just drop this on the ground right so these questions
about data are really important for a lawyer because the things we think about
from the cyber and data perspective is the kind of thing that really matters
for researchers when Reuben is working with these companies that are collecting
these data lawyers would ask us questions first and this will tie into
what Rachel and Tom are going to talk about the minute from the intellectual
property standpoint as well as the commercialization standpoint it is
really important that video searchers understand how the data they’re using is
being collected if you’re working with an NIH data a part of the genomics
cohort you’re fine right you know that those people have consented to the
collection of the data so when we look at this again if the researcher needs to
know how the data being collected or what some important thing from a legal
standpoint when we look at this somebody can argue that there is human testing
that’s going on here right we’re collecting data about the impacts it’s
just an argument not saying this is and again this is all conceptual but when we
look at this the question becomes did that individual consent what about when
you have a minor child whose data is being collected with this sensors what
is the long-term implications of this data can an employer 20 years from now
go giving your information can a health insurance company say that these are the
kinds of questions that we have to answer now from an interdisciplinary
approach because it takes both the law the scientist the patent attorney and
the person who’s handling this data keeping this data secure right and
making sure that the data itself is trusted and accurate so again there’s
overview of questions that will keep coming back to you is how is the data
being collected right where are you sourcing the data from that
their research and and so so is their consent and where does the data being
stored are you storing data that has certain compliance requirements under
the law right if it is do you have to comply with the National Institutes of
Health’s compliance requirements Ryan’s going to talk to us about that in a few
minutes and then how long the data’s stored
who owns the data if this is the student athletes life now of brain data
Boulanger and the US and Europe differ completely on the answer to that
question and all of you this goes back to something Jenica so let me let me ask
that next question who owns the data then who can access the data okay so
these are these really pressing questions as we use human health data
Ruben is doing really cutting-edge stuff but every single person in this room is
walking around Fitbit has consented to contractually data being collected about
them that can be used for human testing purposes that is what your terms of use
for your VIP it says Jenny Evans the ICS director mentioned the Strava story for
some of you who don’t know that Strava is basically Facebook for athletes it is
a mobile app that is synced with your wearable device really great really high
performance act Strava sitting around you know it’s a great app company to
create if we collected data we use to keep heat sensing data publicly
available data from satellite imagery yeah that’s great because then our we
can chart athletes heat maps and look at how many Strava top athletes are using
this Pentagon officials thought it was so great to incentivize soldiers to stay
in shape that they supplied wearable devices and apps to thousands and
thousands of soldiers in active combat so a engineering student I think
right Nathan rooster looks at the strata heat map and realizes he can identify us
special ops bases in Mogadishu Djibouti that there’s no public record of and no
one should know so the interesting thing New York Times of Universe eNOS has a
great little two-minute video on the Strava half story so think about what
happened there the lack of interdisciplinary
communication military Pentagon incentivizing soldiers to stay in shape
really good intent Strava we want to one make money off of people but we also
want to instead of my athletes right and we want to make this platform not only
that Strava because it’s like facebook for athletes you could put posts up so
things like the camp perimeter base run and so think from a standpoint of
special ops and security you knew exactly when soldiers were patrolling
the base when the soldiers were exercising because they’re wearing the
Fitbit all the time so the data is being collected about them constantly so and
we think about that who owns that data and think about the murder of data
sources that is all part of our life now so turning back from the standpoint of
Ruben’s aspects when he’s working with these sensor companies it’s perfectly
appropriate for a researcher who is either developing a mobile app to make
sure from a contractual standpoint that he or she whoever when however is
working on this app development is in fact making sure that Terms of Use and
privacy policies clearly get consent from the person who’s going to be
wearing the device are using it from the standpoint of a researcher who’s
gathering data from outside sources right you’re trying to make sure about
compliance which I’ll turn to Ryan in a few minutes about and and then you’re
trying to make sure that it’s appropriate for you to say hey I need to
make sure you have consent you’re sending because we’re getting
data on individual we’re getting individual health data and so you have a
right as a researcher when you’re sourcing data and you’re working with
outside vendors to make sure that that piece is addressed so we’re not you
finish up yeah so this is just a conceptual idea about how we work and I
can already set this but basically through that picture but basically
sensor companies have had their own they have their own software platforms and
they they they run on different clients clients could be laptops mobile phones
or tablets that dad has collected from the sideline it goes up to the cloud the
software companies could get a final modeling API which would basically you
know give us give them access to some server and they would get a library of
generic rain images that that I’ll explain in a second when the impact
occurs the center company calls the API and sends measured accelerations an
impact location to the cloud once it comes on to a cloud server then the
final model would use the sensor data as input and compute the area of the brain
with the highest strength and there are a lot of other measures we can look at
but I’ll just talk about strain and another term for strain is stretch
though where the tissue stretch the most the final model then sends a short text
message based on the output say such as like cerebellum or corpus callosum
whatever region was affected the most and the sensor company would get that
text message and be able to show in their platform back to the physician or
whatever might be the region of the brain that was was affected so that of
course could be done for you know all these impacts on one day and and that
can add up to quite a quite a bit of simulations and that can all be
superimposed and cumulative effects be explored so that’s kind of the the
data that process we’ve been thinking about but it’s just impressive and so
how do we as Penn State make sure that it’s doing everything he needs to from a
compliance standpoint in terms of systems and where and how this data is
going you know what’s happening with it how do we make sure rubens intellectual
property is being protected and how do we help Rubin as a university get this
to the marketplace how do we commercialize it so I’m just gonna let
me say one more thing so in terms of compliance so and I do want to disclose
that the company has been formed through Penn State so it’s called digital brain
technologies and I worked with Tom’s office to do this and I’m going through
all the conflict of interest and all of these other meetings and it’s been a
really amazing there are if you go through that process there’s a
tremendous staff and I meet with Rachel I think next week or the week after talk
about IP I’ve worked with the IP office and the tech transfer folks so there’s
like really great resources for the researchers side to explore this and
that probably been great but I didn’t want to disclose that so Brian trying to
tell us like Rubens already talked a little bit about how ICF and HPC those
high powered computing systems are making this possible when you just kind
of give us the architecture of ICF the considerations that go into this like
clients short-shorts so again thanks ribbon I thought that was really
wonderful and it’s actually really great and despite this how long
it makes me proud sitting up here that you know ICS can support research
endeavors such as this right and I do want to just point out that for you know
route Ruben’s one example and a research that the e document here is great ICS AC
as opposed support somewhere to neighborhood I think of three thousand
users across the university which is which is great it wouldn’t be right of
me not to mention to to teams in particular than ICS has week so
organization we have several teams and all the teams together make ICS ACR
really what it is but there’s two in particular I want to call out the first
is a client engagement team con engagement team typically will be or as
a researcher would be your first interaction with ICS unless you’re
talking with Jenny it’s typically going to be the client engagement team
post-appointment Derek lighting for example it’s that team that really works
with the researcher to try to identify you know which allocation makes sense
for a particular user right how much do you need thatthat sort of thing right
when you say allocation just for the non tech compute allocation how many course
do I need how much storage doing yes and then the other team that I think is
equally as critical is our advanced technical services team and this team is
made up of wonderful individuals with many different skill sets that can work
directly with the researcher I’m not even going to get attempt to get into
everything that they do and offer the researcher but at the highest level they
can sit down and they can work with the researcher to hey how can I get my code
to perform optimally on this HPC high performance computing
and from now on I’ll be a PC how can I get the code to perform on this HPC
environment right we offer those services some some services you pay for
other services depending on the amount of
it might also be included with your initial signup but I’m not here to
discuss that but those are really the two outward facing entities within ICS
okay and and I say that and I’m the infrastructure right I’m the technical
director and I’m here to tell you I’m not saying what I know enthusing it’s
not important it absolutely is but our mission
again I can’t highlight this enough is the researcher right it’s to push that
that ball forward on a research environment right we provide that
instrument and so you know it’s great that we can enable this and you know
that’s where you know I kind of come in but you explain these team teams and
you’ve got you you’ve done it like 3,000 users and there across 10 different
colleges and we’ve got all kinds of different research going on so you’ve
got some pretty diverse data sets how does ICS take that into account so
it’s interesting so if I can take you on a journey when I started here in 2015
just real quick there the University we didn’t have a United 5 that’s the
standard that oh I asked with the office of information security
just published I think last year that we all need to be in compliance with 1895
did not exist we didn’t have one centralized template that we could use
so for example when I came in we had researchers that had NIH National
Institutes health data they referred the office of sponsored programs referred to
it as a DB gap data which i think is just a database that stores genomics
data right and among other data types but it’s not really a data type it’s a
database but they came to me and said okay listen you know here’s seven or
eight controls that we need to be four DB gap and then we might have a
researcher that has a Federal Acquisition regulation and
the lawyers probably your question we’re talking about regulations I’ll do that
but basically any researcher that was dealing with the Department of Defense
they would have this regulation applied to their grant or their contract and it
basically at that time would say hey you need to be and I are on this 800-53 and
I’m not I’m not going to get into all of that the bottom line here is I didn’t
have one template to work off of right so every time a researcher came in and I
could imagine the annoyance to the researcher every time the researcher
came in I had to run through the process again and say okay yeah we need these
and here’s how we meet them so what we really tried to do and I say we because
it was a team effort it was not just myself we sat down and decide we need a
template right and actually the government kind of made this a little
bit easier on us because you know as we started to go forward with this they
came out with NIST 801 71 yeah and so we used that because that kind of it kind
of it was a little bit broader and we could actually map because I took it
upon myself to map the controls from out of NIH map the controls from export
export control data I car into nests and once we have that one central template
it made it a lot easier I could sell our controls much quicker
we could basically make the case that I don’t have to keep selling them off so
if someone such as Reuben comes and says hey I need a system that’s compliant
we’ve already done it right I don’t have to run through it again and we would
kind of standardize on that and it took a lot of effort I mean I work with the
Office of Information Security I work with the office of sponsored programs
and I don’t even mention internal audit we were doing an internal audit and
parallel to all this and they have it totally different
at that time right so it really we’ve made a lot of progress you know and I’ll
throw a shout-out here Toto is as well we think collectively we have made a lot
of progress at this university from just a compliance standpoint and I hope I
really hope to make it easier for the researcher particularly you know again
like Ruben the university has created something
called an authority to operate okay now this is something when I came in this is
a DoD speak by the way that’s what all their systems on the DoD side have they
have authority to operate but I came in they’re also known as 80s when I came in
and said hey we need some ATO like thing right we may do like document so we can
sign off on and say okay everybody’s in agreement right I’m not selling off my
requirements to myself because that was the other thing I want to hit on role
but just briefly is you know I got handed a piece of paper and all I had to
do was check each one of those boxes and say we were compliant to me that’s not
compliant to me compliances I can check those boxes and then show you how it did
it right and you don’t have to be super technical right when I saw a lot of
requirements to the government I never sold them off anybody that was more
technical than myself right they were always and four levels above me and so
that’s what we attempted to do on within ICS so working with oh I asked you know
we created this major in the process we got the ATL we validated our
requirements I travel I have over 600 requirements right now on our system
over 150 of more security related and last December we went through each and
every single one of those requirements and so lamothe when I say we sold them
off we sold them off – oh is I believe there’s a representative from LSP there
and I made sure that there was an eternal audit there that way we can
all kind of share is a responsibility of not only do I meet him we actually rank
we really ran through them and we had documented test procedures keystroke by
keystroke basically this is what we’re doing it this is how we’re selling often
this is what it means to you yes because Ryan’s told in great detail about
federal government requirements when security around data is lots of
different requirements if it’s defensive health or whatever
he and his team delivered those federal requirements complete and on time and
the one of about three or four major universities to do it in the country and
state rules and to just understand from the standpoint because it gets its get
it’s getting technical a little technical here but besides leading the
way and getting this done first what does that mean for Penn State
researchers it puts you in a standpoint of compliance and so it’s we get lost a
little in the tech speak and numbers going everywhere the the point of it if
just you as researchers are being presented with a HPC systems that are
compliant for the requirements that you have to have to get a grant right and
that is a critical part of it you are contractually representing when you take
data from a source outside that you’re in compliance with those like just maybe
like just does simply called cyber security requirements if you want but
the systems requirements ICS is serving that function and so part of the detail
of this is not to be ok let’s get into the weeds of how this really happens but
understanding whether you are or working with health data NIH data these
different types of things ICS is built has built the compliance piece into it
and it’s not that lawyers when we say compliance is both a technical and a
legal function right you can’t be compliant than it from a legal
standpoint and left as Ryan says I can show you how we are actually technically
compliant so it’s not just checking a box the systems are in fact compliant
that’s a huge relief and weight off the shoulders of researchers because it’s
one of the most Byzantine areas of you know you get this thing into submit a
grant you’ve got a you know you’re just trying to get your thing done you’re
trying to get your research done so taking that on it’s a huge role so yeah
I just want to make one more point and that point is a good job of doing this
earlier is that a challenge I put out to the team throughout all this over the
last couple years is I firmly believe that securing because of security and
compliance person right that my job in this this university is to be as
transparent as possible to provide this most secure environment that I can but
to be the most transparent as possible that’s to say that Ruben how often have
I talked to you I’m sure I’m not sure that’s the point right
I don’t I shouldn’t be on the phone every day with Ruben or really and call
me saying I can’t get sucked up what do you guys do in there right and that’s
the point we shouldn’t be it’s like a referee or
an umpire at the baseball game right I gotta call balls and strikes when it
comes to a through it and though I asked us but I shouldn’t be
dictating the trajectory that Ruben is taking right I have two neighborhoods to
do this where he should know that I’m fair right and I just want to make that
point and hopefully hopefully that’s coming across and you know by the way I
will offer anybody listening online if it’s not you know we can have a
conversation – right it’s a that’s right and that’s what you’ve got
those two different teams so I’ve got finally eclipsed you so thank you very
much Ryan so a lot of what Reuben is talking about here is conceptual and he
keeps saying Nord conceptual for a host of reasons but one of them is when we
think about what’s going on this is a development process how how is Penn
State and how Rueben going to protect this intellectual property so Rachel can
you just give us a quick overview when we say intellectual property and then
what do you see here yeah so we say intellectual property the four main
types that we usually talk about our patents copyrights trademarks and trade
secrets and all of them could apply potentially to a company like the one
that Reubens proposing so trademarks are pretty easy so again by the way that’s
just your brand name right we all know we all know what Nike shoes are versus
Louie Vuitton shoes right they may mean different things and we know that
because of a brand then we think about copyrights so you might think oh I
copyright usually protects paintings and movies right but I bet that the software
can be protected by by copyright any if you were to have any blog post guest
blog office on your company’s website those would be protected by copyright if
you were to use any images of people playing sports or using your device
those would be protected by copyright and so it’s important to make sure that
you protect both your own copyright and avoid infringing on the rights of others
because when we think about property rights we want to think about how we can
protect what’s ours and how we can avoid trespassing then its respective patents
and there’s a lot of ways that you might protect a product or a service with
patents so if you have a new method of measuring so your method is 80% more
accurate it’s five percent more accurate if you’ve created a new device so you’ve
uniquely put the sensors inside the path well I know you didn’t
but the company that put the sensors inside the mouth they did that for a
useful reason that maybe it was annoying to athletes lips to have that thing
sticky not enough maybe maybe having it the sensors inside the mouth actually
makes it more accurate that’s another thing that you could time finally I want
to mention trade secrets because that’s the secret sauce that’s the thing that
you keep secret that can make your company successful so certainly
company’s financial records are kept trade secret I think that’s not the
important part of the discussion today but also some very important things are
caps of trade secrets so the Google algorithm or algorithms those are
definitely trade secrets these large databases you have access to them these
companies protect them as a trade secret and they’ve given you probably access
for the purposes that you want and then data that the company collects that can
be held as a trade statement so those would be the types of issues I would
explore with a client when they came to me I also like to point out because when
we think about property we want to think both how we can protect it and how we
can avoid infringing on the rights of others or trespassing I always try to
talk through you know where did you obtain this data did these people give
you permission to use it you know you wouldn’t just go out to the parking lot
and start driving a car right you say can I grab that car I’d be like who owns
it and so I think you want to make sure you it sounds silly when we talk about a
car but I think you want to have the same mindset when we think about data so
does that kind of go back to that for rigid these questions I’m saying that
has to be asked by the researcher where was the data source from you can’t build
and I’m gonna let you say this because we’ll say it for more better and it’s
really your you know area if if someone is taking data and using human health
data for which there wasn’t consent and from the subjects what does that mean
them an intellectual property sample right so we have some actually some
examples so we’re doing a lot of new stuff in this room but we’ll also
remember we’ve been collecting large amounts of human data for awhile so the
human genome was sequenced you know almost 20 years ago and that’s a large
amount of health data and so we have some lessons that we learned in the
field of genetics about people who took information without people’s consent
there’s a great book called The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks back at the time
when Miss Lacs went into the hospital with cervical cancer the doctors did not
think it was important at that time to tell her that she had cancer or to keep
her cells after they removed it from her and then and students have used HeLa
cells i’m sure if any of you took a biology lab in freshman biology you used
HeLa cells probably to look at under the microscope so I just like to point that
out it’s back in the day you know those researchers didn’t think they were doing
anything wrong because they didn’t think about it so I invite you to kind of
think about the data that you’re collecting and how we might think about
it differently twenty or fifty or seventy years all right so thank you and
again but Tom and I know you talked to Ruben
you know you’re dealing with Luna researchers inventors all the time what
is this process of commercialization well let’s assume that the is called the
founders of the company have some idea that’s protectable as a patent for now
there are lots of companies there’s no IP at all to things but in a university
setting there are unique situations not necessarily unique but it is different
in since you have so many people trying to invent this all the time and in
almost all cases the university owns the IP so and people are frequently the
professors are when they come to us they’re often shocked when I say well
where did this idea come from we were to work on it press o in my lab work on the
team and I said well University probably owns this I said no no I I said what
perhaps but it’s still the universities in that person’s chalk did that and but
that’s the way it is with his restaurants better idea with almost
every employer whenever you go work anywhere they have everybody sign a form
that says if you invent something there it belongs to the employer and in most
cases the employer is paying you to do something so it least to me it makes
sense that employers paying you to do something that the employer would then
own the fruits of your labor so to speak so here at the university it let’s just
focus in on people who work at the University and we do work before we send
anybody all over Pennsylvania but within the university if somebody invents
something the usual process is there’s a procedure where they go to the office of
technology man and they say hey we have something here
that we have been the the office of evaluation and they decide if it’s
something that they it’s or like going fishing whether they want to keep the
fish or not yeah they decide whether they want to pursue development of that
ID or not protection of that idea and if they do they take on hiring patent
lawyers to process the protection with the Patent and Trademark Office and so I
did and they paid the fees upfront to do all that stuff because it is their
property and then in most cases the university will try to license out that
technology and for many years most universities license their technology to
anybody who wanted to take it to offer their big companies big drug companies
or other institutions license technology and pay royalties back about ten years
ago all of a sudden lights went off and universities realized that they can make
a lot more money if they could as they say spin-out companies by licensing the
technology to a new company and then if that company turned out to be successful
the university would have a huge return and one of the biggest returns it’s
always cited and this is the University of Florida with Gabri benaderet
and university had a license on it and they got equity and they made a lot of
money from that so here Penn State they used to have a fairly standard licenses
this past year they’ve been trying to change the license sunlight but it
usually breaks down where the university gets a royalty on revenue that comes in
and from the in the use of the IP in a product or
service and the university also gets a small Heckman estate and it varies what
the percentage is but it’s usually nine hundred ten percent it’s a non-voting
you person and so it’s just there it’s like a lottery ticket if this thing
takes off later and it’s sold or they go public or something like that the
university gets out as long lottery ticket says glad we have this and they
never seem to return and so as you would expect the university’s big research
departments MIT Johns Hopkins aside they lead the league in this they’ve been
doing really well Penn State although it always ranks very high in the total
research expenditures it has not done well with this commercialization and
this was like pre president Barron and this is obviously a huge focus of his it
underlies its whole launchbox effort and sullen and it’s you know all over the
university trying to promote this so what we do at the legal clinic is we
meet with the inventors and we represent them we don’t represent the university
even though the university pays our salaries we represent the inventors and
we help them set up a new company and we divide the equity of the company among
the owners if there are several we help them with compensation arrangements up
and you want to have vesting for ownership stakes that you don’t want to
give somebody 25% of the company and then have that person get a fellowship
but move to Germany the next year and they still got to 25% so we work out
those details for the arrangements among the owners so informally companies work
out these intercompany excuse me interim agreements and then help them also with
service agreements supply agreements when they hire companies to do proto
sir maybe the manufacturing in some cases could I have one thing yes
actually um just so you guys know if the University technology transfer elects
not to pursue your patent application by law if it was government-funded research
that’s supposed to go back to the inventor to to pursue on their own so
that’s just so you know if that were to happen to you it doesn’t it’s not like
thank you the universities saying no doesn’t mean
that you can’t pursue one statistic and that like the Brookings Institute did
this huge study of about five years ago university research and probably pushed
this idea it’s the university should use startups as an outlet for getting a
return on their technology and so in this survey that they did of University
of Technology they estimated that 74% of all ideas were presented back to a
usable or a commitment as they called subjective commercialization 74% of them
were as they say left on the cutting room floor that the universities never
got around licensing them out to anybody so the vs. this treasure trove of ideas
sitting there that the custard over a majority of the useful ideas can tell
you about my situation so for me I scented convention this quality rule on
software and I worked with the detect transfer team and met with them and
it was decided that at that point it didn’t want to pursue a patent it might
be too challenging maybe to do that it’s cost a lot of money apparently person to
these things so then we go to the next level which is maybe like a copyright
and so that’s kind of where you’re like this this system is right now we’re
going through that evaluation process does he what that looks like but they
didn’t really really helpful so I and also if any we are going
through the process like Ruben is you know the office of technology management
is great they also represent Penn State’s interests and not the interests
of your companies if you want a guide to kind of help walk you through the
process Tom and I can represent your company kind of give you our tier of
companies I perceptive right so I think that’s important is to remember them to
have someone who’s an advocate on your behalf so any questions from the front
of the audience Jenny so if any state on CIP and Edison
invented anything at a separate why should I tell Penn State or I guess I
should tell Cady sank but why should I be motivated to wear the handcuffs why
should I be notified well you’re contractually required no no myself be
motivated to do it in the first place we’ll just take my kids to the park nap
you you get a share of the role needs to come back there’s like a formula where
your department gets on I suspect it depends on the country yeah it depends
on the contract so in the absence of a contact the person who thought of the
invention and reduced it to practice did it it’s the owner they’re the inventor
for example of a patent but you should be going through the university office
to maybe get a sponsored research agreements are often large companies
will they pay the salary of a few postdocs in exchange for this in those
instances usually it’s very clear you know if the company and the postdoc
invent together this happens if you know if the company you meant separately it
belongs to the company if the postdocs invent then that’s what the contract
says so I don’t want to give a blanket statement because every contract is
different integrate this privacy issue strikes me
as being very interesting so intellectually but also practically some
of my route is very consenting project this going to be compliance with current
regulations but you just know those are going to be insufficient for this sort
of you talk with would the regulations are going to be shifted continuously
understand have reasons to do with that city we you are trying to make that
through that’s going to follow someone for 20 years the regulations are going
to be different 20 years from now now that we is instituting handle it
you needed voiceless wants now must report now I have to say well it’s great
except our agreement all the new people at Penn State oh but it’s still good
nothing had a few days it’s been very frustrating to me but that’s even with
just the recognizes we have now how do we handle this very possible Albany Park
we do we have people who yeah so one thing both law schools particularly
we’ve got the IP clinic and things like that but in terms of the privacy the law
is changing rapidly you make this point and one thing in the u.s. is very unique
it is not occurring in Europe is that we have these 50 states that also can pass
laws that are impacting your research so California right now is like chart
leading the charge and of course then of course being sued by Google and Facebook
because they’re trying to bring data into more alliance with the GDP are
right that general data protection regulation in Europe and as a gross
oversimplification the whole point is the GDP are is that you own your data
think your data is your property and so you have the right to be forgotten and
you have control over that so from the standpoint of what is the
university did I do I do have to say it was kind of
surprising to me the university did not have a general counsel’s office until a
few several years ago for an institution this large but I know that like Cisco’s
office Don watch I think was just here a little bit ago have made tremendous
strides in trying to be very clear about requirements ICS from the standpoint of
what is in compliance with data when it goes on to the system because those
right if we’re talking about health data this is a we’ve got a whole different
scenario of how we’re handling this from the legal standpoint for the researcher
who acts and good fate though and is making sure these questions what’s the
data that you’re using and where is it coming from that’s part of your first
question don’t get in trouble with the data you’re using or the data you’re
collecting how are you collecting it and the
University’s office right now in the u.s. very fortunately if somebody hasn’t
designed the mobile app to collect health data and I’m using health data
not from the standpoint of HIPAA but data that relates to human health
indicators let’s call it that they have to make sure that their computer they
have contractual consent right that the user has said I know you’re collecting
this and I understand that even Facebook has gotten in huge trouble because in
2013 they did psychological manipulation experiments with their data speed and
they got in huge trouble FTC but so they just tweaked their privacy policy
because there was an argument ition and it was Cornell researchers who are doing
this and in the Cornell’s review board approved it but yet it clearly was human
subject testing from one side of the aisle so I think for their researchers
what do you do right now again law schools everywhere are trying
to get up to speed with this both law schools and
and I now has like a certificate in cyber law compliance I know you know the
things that are happening with Tom charcoal and Rachel hurt are those
clicks they’re out there so Tom and I have had several phone calls about hey
I’ve got somebody who’s come in and here’s hints or earnest researchers
happen here’s what it wants to do how do I make sure that this researcher isn’t
violating privacy law and that’s a conversation that we have had in
fairness do you see the way that works is for those of you who read Penn State
today you know they have all these things good things that happen in
announce everyday so frequently there are clients of artists in there to do
things so in reach this I think and it’s thanks oh my goodness you know then she
sends me an email you’re chuckle these people aren’t you
yeah so I use you don’t catch I was watching something make sure that
they’ve gotten involved and really that the you know that okay we won’t yeah
we’ll go on to say we did an exercise about it might sound a lot about that
day but that is you know that’s I think that’s the the question is laws trying
to come up to speed with that you as the researcher can go to the University and
say this is what I’m doing and I need assistance that book that is why the
General Counsel’s office is there and that’s why the law school is here
because we’re doing all kinds of interdisciplinary collaborations Rubin
reached out to me with a question about this that’s kind of how I see us
connected us to the intimate for both Co hires was like yes unless you want to
engage though in so one thing that I was saying they just finished developing a
cyber law course the NSA was really fascinating because it came from a
proposal from highest e ARL and law and they proposed a collection of courses
and the NSA was like we only want the law course and the ist course we don’t
the air off courses right so but we all kept working together what was really
fascinating though is that the and his face point was we need the law piece of
that and as a result the folks knew RL and the folks at iced tea we all
collaborated and that made that possible and we’re seeing that push because as
you’re saying how do we keep abreast of this so interdisciplinary and
collaboration is is the way if a researcher like on researchers reach out
to me directly somebody wanted to say hey I am trying to get the grant
Francisco and it’s really to do predictive analytics on employees who
are at risk or potential theft and I was like okay what are you doing and what do
you need and that researchers needs were so complex they really needed like to
have general counsel’s office full on board that was not hey here’s how we can
come up with a proposal because really they needed like significant legal
protection so I think that reaching out knowing the resources that are there
both here at Penn State law in at Dickinson law and these are both there’s
the not just and I say NSA in cyber law but this is really very industry dynamic
you know KPMG reaches out to law and says can you come to a presentation with
us for the Smeal grads because we’re talking about business and everything
keeps coming up as caught compliance if you want called cyber law it doesn’t
really matter they’re trying to figure out how do we keep abreast of these laws
that are changing so rapidly and you know California every think how many
pens of the I mean California residents Penn State has as students and so what
does that mean she’s like a fly that California law so yeah I think that’s it
I think all the mechanisms from protecting and doing the right thing are
here at the universities from from my experience but I do think we could do a
better job and I’m gonna do this come from from reaching out like you said to
the researchers cuz in the piano now we have like a lunch box and all these
student startups and we have faculty doing this stuff I mean and so it’s you
can get the data so quickly nowadays that sometimes you don’t
he’s never lined her to stop think so I think we could use something I don’t
know what that might look like but oh well I think that’s why ICS did this co
hire I mean they were like okay this is a critical need and so that’s part of
why we’re like okay then we’re going to put resources into doing this into doing
these kinds of sessions right and you know usually think about any Kendall’s
there are this was just this one out pretty quickly it was really recently
started to you know 95 people and so we have folks from Hershey we have folks
from all over that are paying attention if you have question yes so the
university seems to be doing a great job of taking some of the financial risk out
of the investigators hands but for planning purposes how much time does
this add to the process and researchers we just want to get data and work with
it and do useful things and what should we be planning for if we’re going to do
this the right way so I think everyone can answer that but one one thing to
think about at the outset is great you know we’re going to talk about checking
the box if you’re going to be using ICS as systems you know are you aware of
what you need to know are you putting the ìiî on the University servers
because time watch would be here but he would have sweaty palms
if either of that right so I think from a time standpoint this is just part of
the process usually grant proposals in fact require it they demand that you
show compliance both technical and legal right that you’re not going to take or
use data in violation of the law so I think that’s already part of the process
we just don’t stop and think about it as from the research side until you talk to
us and you’re like oh it’s not you’re already doing it
you just need you know we all need to work together to do it a little more
from an interdisciplinary standpoint so the phone call I think for Reuben it was
a hey you need to be connected with Tom sharp all you need to be connected with
Rachael hurt her and I think that got the ball rolling pretty quickly really
yeah I think I mean I you’re a researcher you’re proud familiar with
the IRB maybe they don’t reach out enough to either the IRB process – maybe
they should have the seat here – I think because I mean they’re they’re really
before I started talking with the law folks that’s the people that I was
working with and they approve and they help you through that data then that
process is bitch I can I can tell you a little bit about my experience I had an
idea I wanted to do I wanted to use human data and so I email them and then
they sent back those form and had to go out and it was a long form and then they
had to go through there’s a couple iterations but it was online and that
was pretty quick and helpful and you from that you get a document that that
participants would sign or I’m sure they have other ways to get
people to consent but that’s a really important very important process in
their research Speer Tom you were gonna say something – I just cuz they
frequently in terms of the commercialization side the people who
invent particular service or product they are not kind of run the company
yeah and that’s the way it is almost all over the place is a question of time and
this question of town I mean frequently you know the people who invent something
in a lab or not we’re going to manage a workforce so the university has an
active recruitment program where they frequently there are people who have run
companies who may be able to sold the company and they’re not doing anything
in particular right now and so that I took a number of cases where they
encouraged the startup team to hire somebody in the CEO to then run the
company to try to get up and running and and frequently at this point the company
has no cash so what you need is somebody who come in nurse the company along and
he’s change for equity so they get you know a certain percentage of the company
the vests upon certain milestones and that’s its way most universities
handling okay so to tie some of these together there’s this big question that
I think is so floating out there that’s start something that maybe has some
legal implications who do we talk to like who’s our first contact because I
mean I go through the IRB for everything they have no idea about legal compliance
for the most part I mean I can talk to the technical people and they have some
ideas some of them all right now here’s here’s so we have lunch box
we have talked for a while the commercialization piece of it we have
Rachel her for the intellectual property piece of it I use a cyber and privacy
piece of it the to law schools even though they’re two separate law schools
I have worked now with these two for a long time and
always do so that’s not an issue or conflict at all oh yeah so I think that
knowing do you have a project that could benefit from insight of law are you
doing something pursuant to a grant or is this something you’re just doing on
your own are you trying to get money from different Institute’s for this
project if you say hey let me involve law at the outset just to get up let’s
run this by I know I know everybody is very interested in collaboration that’s
the point and not to say we want to come in and take over your idea we want to
give you the support that you need to get better funding so that they know
that this isn’t happening in the dark because in many universities including
what was going on here for a long time and it wasn’t you know lack of whatever
is just happening really fast people didn’t have that opportunity or surance
there are every true there’s no major research institutions in the world that
have two law schools that’s what you get when you’re the
managing partner Morgan Lewis here a one thing just for our listeners who might
not be familiar our V stands for institutional review board and there’s a
party that would approve of your subject research so I think Tim just to be fair
like it’s not like we’ve anybody to be inundated random phone calls but
reaching out to the university’s general counsel’s office to say I’m doing this
is an appropriate step reaching out to the faculty in the law school who who do
this area over deal with your specific thing I mean I again I think I just kept
me here for that reason like that was why they’re like we’re steady fear well
my experience was exactly the same way though I’m just yeah I’m getting
balanced from here that is that person then and then the people that draw up
the papers don’t work with the conflict of interest I think where the gap is is
up to office of technology man can you get to that point we actually have an
idea that’s crystallized you said I got it think it was very effective then it’s
saying okay go see this person go see this person is before that we would have
no idea what you read Joe Tehan though for anybody who hasn’t done this you
reach out to him when you have something that you’ve reduced your practice as
you’ve done even in gathering data for 10 years before you actually come and
say god I think that’s the thing we’re trying to talk about though is doing it
cuz I think Tim that your experience like right but you’re like okay what did
I just do I mean not people not that wasn’t exactly what happened but no but
let me feel that we reach out to counseling councils at baby with my
clinic I have a lot of people that are not ready to like reduce something to
practice but just kind of want to bounce some ideas off and I try to kind of
guide them you know don’t disclose it publicly if you want to file a patent on
it don’t disclose it publicly if you want to find
but uh you know it’s it’s good to talk to us especially good for free we can
kind of help you know put some framework around what you might be doing early in
the process and I think Tom and I are very good at referring out to like if
you come talk to me about Tom or and stuff I will be like go to those people
know you know if they’ll have a diet I mean I’ll be like uh I’m not a patent
attorney Rachael an office of technology
management sentence people to me and I send people to them and so via my
experience has been that so far on the commercialization about peaceful I think
that’s actually relatively poor work yeah I’m getting the frustration you
Torres that most likely you hate IRB is driving decisions about privacy that
storage of information and consenting and stuff it’s not obvious meaning that
a liability has the other view to join that yeah I’m also just gonna you know
you can’t do but you know you don’t have a contact at university I don’t like
doing the storage of data that is my problem
so what else should be figure this okay but so I’ve been asking so when you
apply for a brain you go online and Penn State would submit be granted to me go
through this thing you say am i doing human subjects am i doing animal
subjects what am i doing in my lab that could be dangerous they don’t know us
what kind of data are you getting what kind of done reusing that where even a
stored and how much is it in hell we want
and for ICIS all of them is critical so I’m this sort of stab that diamond room
because I think this is the most important part of the conversation from
your standpoint not just on top of that to biological samples there’s a whole
lot of stuff it’s a very big big company so I imagine various parties
specifically not have single coincidence yeah I mean in all fairness so Hershey
there are IRB HSP ogres or does have a teacher p5 in the eighth one that
touches on a lot of these points we just don’t have it here yeah I do think it’s
a better vision and yeah and Hershey the s of the medical community is way ahead
we were talking about this kind of data the problem is now because data right so
her she has got that HIPAA compliant so when we talk about that we talked about
protected health information the way HIPAA and the statute is defined is you
have to be a medical care provider or a business associated with medical care
provider to be subject to HIPAA requirements the problem is how this the
law is changing how this is playing out these really complex right so the
medical community here is doing a ton of that and also from the health standpoint
there’s a law professor Cott learned at Dickinson law who’s doing a time with
her she and doing a ton in the health space so I think your question though is
the problem that we’re seeing as technologies have also rapidly that you
all are accessing human data in a way that has never been possible before and
if we all talk about it we’re talking about health data but our law doesn’t
regulate it as such because it wasn’t collected by the provider and we got
third forms over there as well factor so to me is like a blossoming problem of
who knows what’s going on I’m really glad that you’re with us on
these terrific people together like this thing’s a very very complicated form the
researchers will I guess no cell phone use asking is a twenty percent white
precision so I would really think strongly pushing for this because again
you know this is kind of why Tom your UI here but they’re also teaching these
long horses and but part of part of that is it would be helpful to have a
dedicated privacy counsel in the General Counsel’s office and we do not have that
and so I think this is a conversation in the dialogue for the community right and
and it’s not you know that’s not somebody who’s going out and also trying
to teach cyber law and information privacy law and doing all these other
things and yeah we hasn’t lost it to everybody when they guess I know he’s
got a really great loss to do are like very technically a student and there’s a
super interested in cyber privacy so I think yes thank you one other question I
had going back to Roman Rubens work that’s really really cool stuff and when
so I participate a sport or I need to be able to talk and review it if someone
else I also was involved in a pretty traumatic injuries I had hang glider 300
pounds 30 miles an hour hit me as I was launching off on the mountain and then
they had to take me to the ER and the ER doctor was very confused
are you sure that’s what happened and I in tears and I had a lot of different
things that I’m trying to Courtney and they have been on a plane in three hours
so it would have been really really cool in that situation if I had that finite
element element modeling that could have provided that information and my other
life I also stupid I don’t have these skin but we were mostly for thermal
protection but I’m wondering and this is not very well thought out Senate and
we’d have this really cool case study for this but I’m wondering is there
something that we could have like an exoskeleton that would would have a very
thin layer over me that if I had a separated shoulder right and they had to
do an angiogram to send me on this plane to make sure that I could get back okay
that that could have been transmitted how far out are we from something I know
this is kind of a chore that exists yeah oh it does yeah I mean I know that a lot
of these sensor companies are starting to put things in different places and
monitor that on different type of signals on toast acceleration so the
issue though so I also went to the FDA campus at the time we talked about
mobile technologies and clinical trials and one of the main things there was how
much it must be upheld what does it take to have this data validated and I guess
pretty match scenario there’s other questions that come up you know
the crazy insurance package on the yoosh but many cutting Association shorter so
from a place like a friends expand point dough and being being viable in court
whatever it what does that mean so yeah that’s a great question I don’t think
that’s answered yet I know the FDA is is really spinning up they’re all in this
whole department on computational medicine so I think that’s being
explored right now how do we how do we actually get FDA approval and some of
the nesting of stuff to actually be predictive so right now I should be
clear that the models you know we like to say they’re particulars engineers but
they’re not pretty good in terms of medicine I mean we can’t use them for
anything in any medical diagnostics it’s not FDA approved to the funder none of
these sensor devices are FDA approved and the simulations aren’t either so
that’s that’s where we hope to take it but it’s not there yet so that’s a big
challenge I just want to say I’m impressed with how many times you said
conceptual today right so I yeah I mean this has been a great conversation if we
can continue it I know we’re out of time I know we’re all happy to sit here chat
thank you all for coming thanks for the folks online for everybody this is it’s
really helpful to you know keep the dialogue going and and hopefully this is
the start of a lot of these conversations but to get you answers to
not just let’s talk about it and not just it depends him thank you guys

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